Check it, my Q & A with Timothy Wyllie, ex Process Church art director, general cosmic fellow, writer of new age books about communicating with dolphins and angels. I was going to run this interview on my Temple of Pei blog but thought better of it: WFMU's Beware the Blog gets around 5000 times the traffic, and this is a voice which much be heard. This is a guy that really lives to the beat of his own drummer. Hope you dig, and remember: As it is, so be it.
During the Process salon at the Anthology Film Archives right around when Love Sex Fear Death came out you mentioned that cults could be a good thing, that there were many benefits to you spending time in one. Could you describe examples of what a good cult experience would be?
The biggest benefit is that one gets to experience a kind of life that isn't available under normal circumstances. This especially applies to reincarnates, who require an accelerated learning curve. Most western societies these days are both risk and pain averse. Cults allow those who need to go through their own pain and anger to do it in a safe situation. Cults can become a microcosm of society, so people in cults can experience a far wider array of possibilities like service, obedience, leadership, as well as what it's like to live without personal possessions, money, and personal freedom. Celibacy for a period is also a necessary psychic/emotional antidote in an over-sexed society. Possibly the greatest gift a cult bestows is when one leaves it. One emerges back into life with the opportunity to follow one's own drummer--free of parental etc influences, and understanding the dire consequences of ever giving away one's power again.
If you were involved in the start of a new cult now in 2011 what would change compared to the Process? What would you focus on?
I wouldn't. I feel cults have had their day. At this point in time and in a spiritual sense, it's every person for themselves. Cults in the sixties and seventies were a kind of clean-up contingency. The were so many reincarnates who needed to work on themselves (and be worked on). The kids these days are different--they don't really need cults the way we did.
Over the years you probably have met hundreds of people influenced by The Process. Any surprises there, was there any indication that you were part of something so huge at the time?
At the beginning, for at least the first five years, we all felt we were onto something big and important. I doubt if any of us could have anticipated its importance as it has been emerging recently.
What teachings of The Process have you retained?
Although TP probably took the concept of personal responsibility too far--it's your responsibility if you are under the wheel of an airplane if it falls off; everything you do, or is done to you is your responsibility--I find it's a very useful POV since it returns the power to you. Blaming an outside force essentially renders one powerless to change it. One can of course always change one's response to it and in that way one regains one's personal power.
The concept that the Universe is responsive to individuals. And that reality is mutable in ways yet to be understood. And that the intuition is a far more trustworthy way of approaching the ineffable, than that of seeking hard evidence.
A line that George Clinton picked up from us: "If you don't like the effect, then don't produce the cause."
That there is a deeper purpose behind what appears to be a rapidly deteriorating global situation.
That God needs humans, as much as humans need God.
You were the art director for the Process, lots of the imagery from the Process magazine are really wild and original. Where did you draw inspiration?
One of the aspects of originality is that the ideas seem to come from nowhere. From out of the blue. It happens sometimes, but not often, in science, because scientists tend to have to build on the work of others. For the intuitive, the ideas come from the inside. I didn't really understand that at the time I was designing the magazine in the way I now do. I was simply responding to the requirements of the text. People have commented recently on a certain psychedelic quality to the design of the magazines. If only! If I'd have been on entheogens when I designed them, they would either be a lot better, or they wouldn't have ever existed. I'd not touched entheogens for at least three years when I was art directing, but of course I have to admit their indirect influence. I never realized this until sometime later when I saw some of the design coming out of the San Francisco Oracle and I realized we'd both been drinking from the same source.
As an architectural student I'd developed a way of drawing perspectives--the presentation drawing intended to sell the design to the client--which emphasized a far more emotionally-charged relationship with the building. I haven't thought this before, but it's likely I would have borrowed some of that intensity and applied it to my graphic art. The design approached was also vastly enriched by the working relationship I had with Ewald, a young German photographer who'd joined TP and who was a whizz in the darkroom. He was highly inventive and since we were creating the magazine on a shoestring, he was all that more forced to be innovative. As Art Director, I made it a point to remain ignorant about the technical issues. The result of this was I was free of any technical limitations in the design process and I could, in all innocence, challenge Ewald to find a way of manifesting my design. His ability to do this then fed-back into my design process pushing me to come up with the next challenge. Which he would then meet. So it went.
The idea for the book Love Sex Fear Death originally started out as just a straight reprint of the Process Magazine, but eventually grew to tell the story of the Process from the many of the players involved. Any plans to go back and doing a complete reprint of the magazine?
Yes, Feral House, the book's publisher is bringing out a boxed set of some of the mags as well as other Process material.
I know a lot of people found The Process from the Ed Sander's sensational book The Family. I'm thinking that perhaps it turned out to be a good thing in the end, it may have been one of the things that eventually wore the cult out, but helped cement The Process into the popular culture. I doubt this interview would be taking place right now if I hadn't read The Family over the Thanksgiving weekend in 1991.
I'd never thought of it like that but doubtless you're right. Of course, what it doesn't take into account is what might have become of The Process if Sander's hadn't told all those lies.
Have you had any communication with Robert De Grimston since the book came out? Do you know what his reaction is to any of the recent attention? You hear reports about him just being a telecom exec on Staten Island, but that's really it.
No, nothing from him. He's probably envious someone else wrote what he really could (and maybe should) have written. Although it would have been a very different book. I think he's so far out of the spiritual loop at this point, it would have been the last thing he'd have wanted to do.
How would you compare the Sabbath Assembly Band recordings compared to the original band?
Chalk and cheese; totally different. For the Assemblies we only used acoustic guitars and a light percussion. The important thing was to get everyone there singing along. The Sabbath Assembly Band, never having heard the original music and working solely from sheet music, have done something completely different and have raised the music to another order entirely. It's a brilliant piece or interpretive work.
One thing that you seem to have a knack for is your ability to communicate with the other, beings from beyond this dimension, be it the gods of the Process, extra terrestrials, angels. Is this something you could do from an early age? Were you always sensitive in this way?
Yes and no. Growing up in a war I had some severe trauma and as a young child left my body when the bombs were falling. I believe this gave me a certain facility with other levels of existence. I was an atheist until my early twenties so I would have rejected anything psychic or spiritual as delusion, psychological or fabricated. The Process was valuable because almost everything we did was based on intuition. This got the "intuition muscle" moving which is a necessary precondition to interspecies contact. Again, a cult can provide this as a counter-reaction to our over-cerebralized society.
These were the experiments of a professor of organic chemistry at London University carried on outside the university in informal situations--not partying, but serious explorations.
Have you experimented with Salvia?
Yes, I'm familiar with Salvia--scared the shit out of me. I did it 8 or 10 times and nothing happened. The eleventh I wasn't paying attention and didn't give her due respect--so she kicked my ass.
Kicked your ass? As I am sure you are well aware lots of people think that salvia contains a message. Did it tell you anything?
I guess the only thing Salvia showed me was my capacity for foolish carelessness, when I should have known better. I'm quite aware it wasn't the Salvia that made the whole sensation so ominous (I've been to hell enough to know it's me and not the entheogen), but my incorrect relationship to her.
Having explored entheogens for over 50 years one of the things I've learned is that the explorer--if she lasts-- finds the ones that vibe best with her personality. My approach has always been, try everything three times. First time, it's often "Am I high yet?" Either nothing happens, or everything. Second time: you kind of know what's coming down the pike and can adjust accordingly. Third time is make or break; she should know by this time whether she can work with it--or what it's prospective function in her life could be.
In this way one makes some unlikely allies. I found, for example, PCP/Angel Dust, contrary to its bad rap, to be the Queen of the concocted Entheogens and an invaluable ally to bust open my head. I like DMT--and have probably done it at least 100 times--but I find I can't work with it. It just moves too fast. I suspect, for me anyway, Salvia is probably somewhat the same. Thing about entheogens is just because they get you there, doesn't mean they keep you there. They are one way of opening the door, but the most important aspect of them is in the assimilation of the information into one's life so as to transform it.
You have written numerous books on contacting angels, E.T.'s, etc. Can you recommend a simple exercise to get our readers into the right headspace? There is so much more to it, but do you have any exercises to point them in the right direction?
If someone is genuinely interested in preparing themselves for angelic contact you'll find something called the GRACE Process in the book Ask Your Angels, I wrote with Alma Daniel and Andrew Ramer. It's not something to be done casually, but then contact with these higher levels isn't a casual thing. If you're going for a quickie, the only thing I'd suggest is encouraging in whatever way you know (music, a short poem...) your audience to move into the heart chakra when reading or listening. Open the heart and listen with the heart.
Do you feel that these are all the same or is there a diverse group of spirits and beings that can be contacted?
It's a massively populated Multiverse, on both inner and outer worlds, so there a vastly diverse arena of intelligence. There are between 50 and 100 ET races involved in some degree. There are Companion (Guardian) Angels, watchers, and midwayers. There are astral shades and demons. There are spirit helpers and guides. It's a vast multitude. And there are a large number of angels with a variety of tasks.
I know you have been friends with Genesis P-Orridge for many years and you were name checked in the liner notes to the Kondole album. Did you consult on the record at all? Any insight on the psychic nature of marine mammals passed on?
I wasn't intimately involved with the album, but Gen's successful work to free the dolphins from Brighton Aquarium, he tells me, was inspired by one of my books which dealt with the true nature of dolphin sentience. The nature of marine mammal intelligence is too complex a subject to summarize in a few lines. But if your species had been around for about 35 million years with a massive brain, you might well have your own reasons for jumping through the hoops of an upstart species that treats you dumb simply because it's not telepathically aware.
Did you hear about Dick Van Dyke being saved by porpoises?
I hadn't heard that. Cool.
What's the last great book you have read?
Talking with Angels: Budaliget 1943, by Gitta Mallasz.
Any predictions for 2012?
I don't make predictions--I prefer to be surprised and there's little point in second-guessing the Multiverse because whatever I come up with, they're going do better, more extraordinary, more humorous, more forgiving and kind, more personally respectful... Since TP days back in the sixties we knew that humanity was going down fast, for all the reasons we're now seeing manifesting. So, transformation is in the air. Since humans don't die (in that we just move on), I'd suggest sentient species don't die either. They're far too valuable to the larger Multiverse context.Whenever I've asked my own angels about what's going to happen they've reassured me that "it will be more gentle than you can imagine" and that it's going to be a supreme surprise. So, I can endlessly speculate, but it's pointless. I do have three hints I've picked up which might be helpful.
From a dream: "If you see a flaming angel, embrace him."
From Hopi: Move towards to blue light when you see it.
From a dream: I'm standing on a beach beside another man I don't know. A tidal wave roars towards us. When it hits us, the man is swept away by the force of the water. I'm standing in the same place as before, the world seems clean and the tsunami is now a wave of information.
Timothy Wyllie Reading List:
The third in the DETA (Dolphins, ETs Angels) series, The Return of the Rebel Angels, is being published by Inner Traditions and will be coming out later this year. And The Helianx Proposition, Or, The Return of the Rainbow Serpent, will be emerging in a couple of months.
If you want to read about the Process from an outsider's perspective Gary Lachman has a great chapter about them in his book Turn Off Your Mind. It's pretty heavy on the oo-ee-oo, sure, but a fun read.