Check it, my Q & A with Timothy Wyllie, ex Process Church art director, general cosmic fellow, writer of new age books about communicating with dolphins and angels. I was going to run this interview on my Temple of Pei blog but thought better of it: WFMU's Beware the Blog gets around 5000 times the traffic, and this is a voice which much be heard. This is a guy that really lives to the beat of his own drummer. Hope you dig, and remember: As it is, so be it.
During the Process salon at the Anthology Film Archives right around when Love Sex Fear Death came out you mentioned that cults could be a good thing, that there were many benefits to you spending time in one. Could you describe examples of what a good cult experience would be?
The biggest benefit is that one gets to experience a kind of life that isn't available under normal circumstances. This especially applies to reincarnates, who require an accelerated learning curve. Most western societies these days are both risk and pain averse. Cults allow those who need to go through their own pain and anger to do it in a safe situation. Cults can become a microcosm of society, so people in cults can experience a far wider array of possibilities like service, obedience, leadership, as well as what it's like to live without personal possessions, money, and personal freedom. Celibacy for a period is also a necessary psychic/emotional antidote in an over-sexed society. Possibly the greatest gift a cult bestows is when one leaves it. One emerges back into life with the opportunity to follow one's own drummer--free of parental etc influences, and understanding the dire consequences of ever giving away one's power again.
If you were involved in the start of a new cult now in 2011 what would change compared to the Process? What would you focus on?
I wouldn't. I feel cults have had their day. At this point in time and in a spiritual sense, it's every person for themselves. Cults in the sixties and seventies were a kind of clean-up contingency. The were so many reincarnates who needed to work on themselves (and be worked on). The kids these days are different--they don't really need cults the way we did.
Over the years you probably have met hundreds of people influenced by The Process. Any surprises there, was there any indication that you were part of something so huge at the time?
At the beginning, for at least the first five years, we all felt we were onto something big and important. I doubt if any of us could have anticipated its importance as it has been emerging recently.
What teachings of The Process have you retained?
Although TP probably took the concept of personal responsibility too far--it's your responsibility if you are under the wheel of an airplane if it falls off; everything you do, or is done to you is your responsibility--I find it's a very useful POV since it returns the power to you. Blaming an outside force essentially renders one powerless to change it. One can of course always change one's response to it and in that way one regains one's personal power.
The concept that the Universe is responsive to individuals. And that reality is mutable in ways yet to be understood. And that the intuition is a far more trustworthy way of approaching the ineffable, than that of seeking hard evidence.
A line that George Clinton picked up from us: "If you don't like the effect, then don't produce the cause."
That there is a deeper purpose behind what appears to be a rapidly deteriorating global situation.
That God needs humans, as much as humans need God.
You were the art director for the Process, lots of the imagery from the Process magazine are really wild and original. Where did you draw inspiration?
One of the aspects of originality is that the ideas seem to come from nowhere. From out of the blue. It happens sometimes, but not often, in science, because scientists tend to have to build on the work of others. For the intuitive, the ideas come from the inside. I didn't really understand that at the time I was designing the magazine in the way I now do. I was simply responding to the requirements of the text. People have commented recently on a certain psychedelic quality to the design of the magazines. If only! If I'd have been on entheogens when I designed them, they would either be a lot better, or they wouldn't have ever existed. I'd not touched entheogens for at least three years when I was art directing, but of course I have to admit their indirect influence. I never realized this until sometime later when I saw some of the design coming out of the San Francisco Oracle and I realized we'd both been drinking from the same source.
As an architectural student I'd developed a way of drawing perspectives--the presentation drawing intended to sell the design to the client--which emphasized a far more emotionally-charged relationship with the building. I haven't thought this before, but it's likely I would have borrowed some of that intensity and applied it to my graphic art. The design approached was also vastly enriched by the working relationship I had with Ewald, a young German photographer who'd joined TP and who was a whizz in the darkroom. He was highly inventive and since we were creating the magazine on a shoestring, he was all that more forced to be innovative. As Art Director, I made it a point to remain ignorant about the technical issues. The result of this was I was free of any technical limitations in the design process and I could, in all innocence, challenge Ewald to find a way of manifesting my design. His ability to do this then fed-back into my design process pushing me to come up with the next challenge. Which he would then meet. So it went.
The idea for the book Love Sex Fear Death originally started out as just a straight reprint of the Process Magazine, but eventually grew to tell the story of the Process from the many of the players involved. Any plans to go back and doing a complete reprint of the magazine?
Yes, Feral House, the book's publisher is bringing out a boxed set of some of the mags as well as other Process material.
I know a lot of people found The Process from the Ed Sander's sensational book The Family. I'm thinking that perhaps it turned out to be a good thing in the end, it may have been one of the things that eventually wore the cult out, but helped cement The Process into the popular culture. I doubt this interview would be taking place right now if I hadn't read The Family over the Thanksgiving weekend in 1991.
I'd never thought of it like that but doubtless you're right. Of course, what it doesn't take into account is what might have become of The Process if Sander's hadn't told all those lies.
Have you had any communication with Robert De Grimston since the book came out? Do you know what his reaction is to any of the recent attention? You hear reports about him just being a telecom exec on Staten Island, but that's really it.
No, nothing from him. He's probably envious someone else wrote what he really could (and maybe should) have written. Although it would have been a very different book. I think he's so far out of the spiritual loop at this point, it would have been the last thing he'd have wanted to do.
How would you compare the Sabbath Assembly Band recordings compared to the original band?
Chalk and cheese; totally different. For the Assemblies we only used acoustic guitars and a light percussion. The important thing was to get everyone there singing along. The Sabbath Assembly Band, never having heard the original music and working solely from sheet music, have done something completely different and have raised the music to another order entirely. It's a brilliant piece or interpretive work.
One thing that you seem to have a knack for is your ability to communicate with the other, beings from beyond this dimension, be it the gods of the Process, extra terrestrials, angels. Is this something you could do from an early age? Were you always sensitive in this way?
Yes and no. Growing up in a war I had some severe trauma and as a young child left my body when the bombs were falling. I believe this gave me a certain facility with other levels of existence. I was an atheist until my early twenties so I would have rejected anything psychic or spiritual as delusion, psychological or fabricated. The Process was valuable because almost everything we did was based on intuition. This got the "intuition muscle" moving which is a necessary precondition to interspecies contact. Again, a cult can provide this as a counter-reaction to our over-cerebralized society.
In the article The Entheogenic Impulse you mention experiments you were in using DMT. Have you heard about the Salvia experiments going on at Johns Hopkins?
These were the experiments of a professor of organic chemistry at London University carried on outside the university in informal situations--not partying, but serious explorations.
Have you experimented with Salvia?
Yes, I'm familiar with Salvia--scared the shit out of me. I did it 8 or 10 times and nothing happened. The eleventh I wasn't paying attention and didn't give her due respect--so she kicked my ass.
Kicked your ass? As I am sure you are well aware lots of people think that salvia contains a message. Did it tell you anything?
I guess the only thing Salvia showed me was my capacity for foolish carelessness, when I should have known better. I'm quite aware it wasn't the Salvia that made the whole sensation so ominous (I've been to hell enough to know it's me and not the entheogen), but my incorrect relationship to her.
Having explored entheogens for over 50 years one of the things I've learned is that the explorer--if she lasts-- finds the ones that vibe best with her personality. My approach has always been, try everything three times. First time, it's often "Am I high yet?" Either nothing happens, or everything. Second time: you kind of know what's coming down the pike and can adjust accordingly. Third time is make or break; she should know by this time whether she can work with it--or what it's prospective function in her life could be.
In this way one makes some unlikely allies. I found, for example, PCP/Angel Dust, contrary to its bad rap, to be the Queen of the concocted Entheogens and an invaluable ally to bust open my head. I like DMT--and have probably done it at least 100 times--but I find I can't work with it. It just moves too fast. I suspect, for me anyway, Salvia is probably somewhat the same. Thing about entheogens is just because they get you there, doesn't mean they keep you there. They are one way of opening the door, but the most important aspect of them is in the assimilation of the information into one's life so as to transform it.
You have written numerous books on contacting angels, E.T.'s, etc. Can you recommend a simple exercise to get our readers into the right headspace? There is so much more to it, but do you have any exercises to point them in the right direction?
If someone is genuinely interested in preparing themselves for angelic contact you'll find something called the GRACE Process in the book Ask Your Angels, I wrote with Alma Daniel and Andrew Ramer. It's not something to be done casually, but then contact with these higher levels isn't a casual thing. If you're going for a quickie, the only thing I'd suggest is encouraging in whatever way you know (music, a short poem...) your audience to move into the heart chakra when reading or listening. Open the heart and listen with the heart.
Do you feel that these are all the same or is there a diverse group of spirits and beings that can be contacted?
It's a massively populated Multiverse, on both inner and outer worlds, so there a vastly diverse arena of intelligence. There are between 50 and 100 ET races involved in some degree. There are Companion (Guardian) Angels, watchers, and midwayers. There are astral shades and demons. There are spirit helpers and guides. It's a vast multitude. And there are a large number of angels with a variety of tasks.
I know you have been friends with Genesis P-Orridge for many years and you were name checked in the liner notes to the Kondole album. Did you consult on the record at all? Any insight on the psychic nature of marine mammals passed on?
I wasn't intimately involved with the album, but Gen's successful work to free the dolphins from Brighton Aquarium, he tells me, was inspired by one of my books which dealt with the true nature of dolphin sentience. The nature of marine mammal intelligence is too complex a subject to summarize in a few lines. But if your species had been around for about 35 million years with a massive brain, you might well have your own reasons for jumping through the hoops of an upstart species that treats you dumb simply because it's not telepathically aware.
Did you hear about Dick Van Dyke being saved by porpoises?
I hadn't heard that. Cool.
What's the last great book you have read?
Talking with Angels: Budaliget 1943, by Gitta Mallasz.
Any predictions for 2012?
I don't make predictions--I prefer to be surprised and there's little point in second-guessing the Multiverse because whatever I come up with, they're going do better, more extraordinary, more humorous, more forgiving and kind, more personally respectful... Since TP days back in the sixties we knew that humanity was going down fast, for all the reasons we're now seeing manifesting. So, transformation is in the air. Since humans don't die (in that we just move on), I'd suggest sentient species don't die either. They're far too valuable to the larger Multiverse context.Whenever I've asked my own angels about what's going to happen they've reassured me that "it will be more gentle than you can imagine" and that it's going to be a supreme surprise. So, I can endlessly speculate, but it's pointless. I do have three hints I've picked up which might be helpful.
From a dream: "If you see a flaming angel, embrace him."
From Hopi: Move towards to blue light when you see it.
From a dream: I'm standing on a beach beside another man I don't know. A tidal wave roars towards us. When it hits us, the man is swept away by the force of the water. I'm standing in the same place as before, the world seems clean and the tsunami is now a wave of information.
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Timothy Wyllie Reading List:
Dolphins Extraterrestrials Angels
The third in the DETA (Dolphins, ETs Angels) series, The Return of the Rebel Angels, is being published by Inner Traditions and will be coming out later this year. And The Helianx Proposition, Or, The Return of the Rainbow Serpent, will be emerging in a couple of months.
If you want to read about the Process from an outsider's perspective Gary Lachman has a great chapter about them in his book Turn Off Your Mind. It's pretty heavy on the oo-ee-oo, sure, but a fun read.
Dear Washed-up 70s-era cult charlatan:
I've co-opted your tired, oppressive woo-woo ethic of everything-that-happens-to-you-is-your-own-damn-fault. And made billions from it.
Please find something more useful to do with yourself.
Posted by: oprah winfrey | January 31, 2011 at 08:28 AM
Fun read! Oprah, keep typing the good fight against everything you don't like... maybe the world will one day be painted gray and everything you dismiss so casually will be gone.
Posted by: Giovanni Pico | January 31, 2011 at 08:49 AM
For posterity's sake here is the intro I cut for space-
So stoked, been way into the Process Church of the Final Judgment for a long time. Hell, my first band was called The Process Sound of the Final Judgment. My current act (which features the same members actually) titled our first release after the Process's figurehead. These people knew the truth, at least for a brief blip in time. I lent a guy I went to high school with (a linebacker on the football team notorious for dropping acid a couple of hours before game time) a copy of Adam Parfray's Apocalypse Culture. His dad totally freaked out and destroyed it so he gave me a first printing of The Family which I devoured over Thanksgiving weekend. The Manson stuff was a kick, sure, but to me the real interesting parts were the chapters on The Process and the Solar Lodge of the OTO. These guys were weird, the kind of weird I needed living in the suburbs of Cleveland.
I loved it. Once Ed Sanders came to Kent State for a poetry reading, and when I handed him my copy of The Family to sign, he wrote "Down with Satanism." Ha! How about down with yellow journalism? How about down with sensationalism?
Posted by: Steven | January 31, 2011 at 09:41 AM
good read. every now and then i think about what happened to members of process. glad to see he's still around. wild about the pcp!
Posted by: tab cola | January 31, 2011 at 11:55 AM
Ha! Well, that was one of the funniest things I've read lately. I like how the interviewer seems to say stuff like "One thing that you seem to have a knack for is your ability to communicate with the other, beings from beyond this dimension" with such a straight face.
It's fun to pretend!
Posted by: The Real World | January 31, 2011 at 12:20 PM
Regardless of cult affiliations, Wyllie was ahead of his time, in regards to his graphic design skills. I reckon that the folks who are so dissapointed that they spent 8 minutes reading something they knew ahead of time they would disapprove of, would be nary capable of matching his work with the newest stevejob mac and an armload of $25 catpoop coffee.
Just my opinion of course.
Will there be comment pages in the afterlife??
Posted by: truth sayer | January 31, 2011 at 01:09 PM
@"truth sayer": Yes, the Nazis were also wonderful graphic designers, "regardless of cult affiliations". Let's all dig the dark-hippy frisson and indulge our inner lonely Ohio teens. "When is Lucifer going to burn down my high school?"
I'd like to offer seed money for research investigating whether dolphins care how much DMT we smoke, but you know, so be it.
Posted by: LT | February 01, 2011 at 11:44 AM
amazing, one of the best i've read on here. look forward to more. which is beaming!
xo to catpoop man and jr. reactionaries...please come back in ten years with a little more experience and re-read, see if you can see a few more of the 1,000,673,etc. shades of color instead of the basic 16 crayola pack.
Posted by: Enoch | February 01, 2011 at 12:38 PM
Having an open mind doesn't mean having an open mind to everything. Can one disagree with this w/o being called reactionary and only capable of thinking in black and white? Or is that thought too colorful and complicated for some of you angel-whisperers?? This post makes me long for Pop Jew's drool. Lordy!
Posted by: BOTB, WTF? | February 03, 2011 at 03:05 PM
are you real
Posted by: li | February 03, 2011 at 05:15 PM
Holy crap! Just got to reading the entire article, "Dolphins Extraterrestrials Angels" sounds amazing!
Posted by: Nat | February 03, 2011 at 11:09 PM
As a matter of facts, i think C.I.A. is a much more dangerous kind of power cult than any of these tribes of teenagers seeking sacred knowledge. Here is something for the reactionnaries to meditate upon:
The end won't ever justify the means.
The means will always determine the end.
(my two cents)
Posted by: Yao | February 07, 2011 at 09:27 PM
Great article Steve! I wish it was longer!
Posted by: Arvo | February 20, 2011 at 04:44 AM
I would like to contact Timothy Wyllie.Reason being:
36 yrs ago I was the understudy of British Playwrite Vincent Tilsley.This resulted in me doing past life regressions.
I developed these into a different process.As a result I was able to make contact with all kinds of entities,Spirits,etc at will.
However in 1978 A group of "intelligences" made contact with me .(not me with them) They said they had been watching me and what I was doing.I had mind boggling communcations with them for about 3 years. I didnt think I was in contact with anyone ,I thought it was my imagination.I asked them for Physical proof of our communciations and their existence. They told me: I would recieve it tomorrow. The next day I was at a seminer at W.A.University. A young woman came up to me and asked my name and told me, her Spiritual Leader wished to speak to me. They were complete strangers to me. The man I now know as Fred Robinson took me to his place and explained the most in depth mind boggling Cosmic concepts to me. After 5 hours, I told him I had to leave to catch a plane.He was an amazing man, 93 yrs old.He said to me
"I want you to have this". He handed me a huge Book called The Urantia Book.I had never ever heard of it. I have had very deep contact with these entities ever since who are COSMIC OVERSEES of the Physical Condition from the other side of eternity. I know them as The White Council.I am 68 yrs old and I am about to write a book about my experiences.
In 2006 the White Council gave me an explanation of Total Existence which I have put in the internett but I have left out much of the meaning and explanation. My book will give the explanation .I have masses of transcripts and substanciation etc. I have been shown the future, the past and the meaning of "everything"e.g. EXISTENCE. .Id like to contact Timothy Wyllie to discuss some of this, as we have been in communication with the same entities.I believe that William Blake the British Artist was also in contact with them and Yuri Geller. Others have also,Possibly Elizebeth Clare Prophet may have been as well.
I have a large amount of mind boggling documentation over 35 yrs of communications with the White Council and all the things they have told me etc. My web page is
Yours,John Kernot
Posted by: John Kernot | September 04, 2012 at 05:28 AM
Further too my posting re The White Council:
Through them I have been able to communicate with dolphins.All kinds of extraterrestials. To see the All Seeing Eye of God.To visit anyone or anything and realms outside human comprehension.
I tried to tap the minds of world leaders once. I was very severely chastised by the White Council .They told me very forcibly YOU ARE NOT MEANT TO DO THIS! YOU MUST STOP!.
I was told 20 yrs before the event, when Id marry and how many children I would have.I was warned against going to a country just before a Coup occurred.My sex life and love life have been interfered with as well.I have been punished for not following advice. I have been given all the of explanations re death ,the reason for mans inhumanity to man..The coming collapse of Civilisation.look around you !(Part of an ongoing cycle that has happened over and over in the past)The reason for human atrocities and the purpose of every single entity that lives and the reason for how they leave the physical condition.I know where extra terrestials come from and who they are, because they are a part of the overall existence as we all are.I have no interest in Islam but I have been shown how Islam is correct in what it teaches but NOT in how it is practiced or preached .I know where and what Paradise is.I know what or who God is and where God is. I know what the Great Jihad is,(and there is one)Iknow why there are no virgins waiting for men after death and why .I know where Hell is and who goes there and why .I know what the God Conscousness is and where it is and how it works.What I have been shown is above all Cults and Religions and is basically how to understand the truth of Total Existence and what we are, Who we are and why we exist and why we suffer .Why there is gender in the physical condition.(and only in the Physical condition) and the purpose of everything .There is only one God.I can show where this God is. and how we are related to God.I know where Satan is and who Satan is.There can be no God with out Satan and no Satan without God.
All existence is based upon two principles with a sub principle.totalexistence .au, The Physical condition is an example of this.I would like to find some one like Timothy to do further research into all this and to produce a Documentary .
Im getting old and there are a lot more things to learn from my teachers yet.John Kernot ( I found this site accidently)
Posted by: John Kernot | September 04, 2012 at 06:16 AM